Throatsinging in Finland - Overtone Music Network2024-03-28T09:49:51Zhttps://www.overtone.cc/forum/topics/throatsinging-in-finland?x=1&id=884327%3ATopic%3A45555&feed=yes&xn_auth=noWolfgang Saus said:Hi Stacey,…tag:www.overtone.cc,2011-03-25:884327:Comment:1176432011-03-25T05:38:49.760ZStaceyhttps://www.overtone.cc/profile/Stacey
<cite>Wolfgang Saus said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.overtone.cc/forum/topics/throatsinging-in-finland#884327Comment117578"><div>Hi Stacey,<br></br> thanks for your post. Do you have a recording of joik with overtones?<br></br></div>
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Yea, somewhere around here... Try this: <a href="http://shub.zuul.org/~zuul/zuul.org/jojk/" target="_blank">http://shub.zuul.org/~zuul/zuul.org/jojk/</a> These are from Sverige Radio's Musica Sveciae series and was recorded around 1953 to 1954. I…
<cite>Wolfgang Saus said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.overtone.cc/forum/topics/throatsinging-in-finland#884327Comment117578"><div>Hi Stacey,<br/> thanks for your post. Do you have a recording of joik with overtones?<br/>
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Yea, somewhere around here... Try this: <a href="http://shub.zuul.org/~zuul/zuul.org/jojk/" target="_blank">http://shub.zuul.org/~zuul/zuul.org/jojk/</a> These are from Sverige Radio's Musica Sveciae series and was recorded around 1953 to 1954. I don't have the bear jojk there... Here's what the accompanying book says:<br />
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<blockquote>Mention has already been made of the inadequacy of our conventional notation in providing a somewhat faithful image of both melodic and rhythmical characteristics of the yoik. And notation tells us hardly anything at all about the actual manner of singing. Yet the style of singing is one of the yoik's most important features ... ... it may be of use to some listeners to indicate some of the most characteristic features that clearly distinguish the way in which the yoik is sung from that which is normal in Western music and which we willingly believe to be "natural". The most obvious feature is the compressed voice resulting from greatly tensed vocal chords and a narrow throat. This technique gives a fairly coarse sound and very little deep resonance. Inhalation is often completely independent of the musical phrases and in many cases the great tension in the vocal chords is maintained while a breath is being taken, given a strange effect of the melody being cut into pieces and the note being forced out under great strain. There is also an impression of the rear of the tongue being pressed almost completely against the palate, preventing the air from passing. (Examples: Olof Blind [10:1,2], Jonas Ponga [10:4,5], Nils Anders Ponga [10:6].)
Many of our contributors also commented on several occasions that it was highly strenuous to yoik, both physically and mentally. ... A further manifest result of the great tension in the vocal chords is that the note ends abruptly when there is no breath left. The melody is cut off sharply, as with the bagpipes</blockquote> Guttural yes but throatsingin…tag:www.overtone.cc,2011-03-23:884327:Comment:1176022011-03-23T17:46:12.338ZSauli Heikkilähttps://www.overtone.cc/profile/SauliHeikkila
Guttural yes but throatsinging? I don´t think so but depends how you describe throatsinging... Monotonous? Well, some people say that rock is monotonus and some people say that classical music is monotonous...
Guttural yes but throatsinging? I don´t think so but depends how you describe throatsinging... Monotonous? Well, some people say that rock is monotonus and some people say that classical music is monotonous... It is longo ago, I saw it. Ca…tag:www.overtone.cc,2011-03-23:884327:Comment:1175972011-03-23T17:40:37.317ZSauli Heikkilähttps://www.overtone.cc/profile/SauliHeikkila
It is longo ago, I saw it. Can´t really remember. Robbers were singing int he party? Don´t think it was joik. Have to check it out. It is nice film anyway.<br />
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<cite>Dan Zimmermann said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.overtone.cc/forum/topics/throatsinging-in-finland?commentId=884327%3AComment%3A117591&xg_source=msg_com_forum#884327Comment117591"><div>If I'm not mistaken, there is a duo of bards featured in the movie "Ronja, Robber's Daughter"…</div>
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It is longo ago, I saw it. Can´t really remember. Robbers were singing int he party? Don´t think it was joik. Have to check it out. It is nice film anyway.<br />
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<cite>Dan Zimmermann said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.overtone.cc/forum/topics/throatsinging-in-finland?commentId=884327%3AComment%3A117591&xg_source=msg_com_forum#884327Comment117591"><div>If I'm not mistaken, there is a duo of bards featured in the movie "Ronja, Robber's Daughter" <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088015/" target="_blank">http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088015/</a> that sing a neat style. I always think of these guys when I hear the term Joik, but I'm probably far off, eh?</div>
</blockquote> If I'm not mistaken, there is…tag:www.overtone.cc,2011-03-23:884327:Comment:1175912011-03-23T17:00:16.971Z1x2nbseym7ijthttps://www.overtone.cc/xn/detail/u_1x2nbseym7ijt
If I'm not mistaken, there is a duo of bards featured in the movie "Ronja, Robber's Daughter" <a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088015/" target="_blank">http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088015/</a> that sing a neat style. I always think of these guys when I hear the term Joik, but I'm probably far off, eh?
If I'm not mistaken, there is a duo of bards featured in the movie "Ronja, Robber's Daughter" <a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088015/" target="_blank">http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088015/</a> that sing a neat style. I always think of these guys when I hear the term Joik, but I'm probably far off, eh? Joik singers as others listen…tag:www.overtone.cc,2011-03-23:884327:Comment:1175822011-03-23T12:07:00.302ZSauli Heikkilähttps://www.overtone.cc/profile/SauliHeikkila
Joik singers as others listen all kind of music so they take influences. All though I have heard some old harsh voice recordings and also some old gypsy singer who sung with ”khoomei”;o) So no doupt.
Joik singers as others listen all kind of music so they take influences. All though I have heard some old harsh voice recordings and also some old gypsy singer who sung with ”khoomei”;o) So no doupt. Hi Stacey,
thanks for your po…tag:www.overtone.cc,2011-03-23:884327:Comment:1175782011-03-23T11:28:10.379ZWolfgang Saushttps://www.overtone.cc/profile/WolfgangSaus
Hi Stacey,<br />
thanks for your post. Do you have a recording of joik with overtones?<br />
<br />
I just came back from the (marvelous) Scandinavian Overtone Singing Festival where I participated in an<br />
introductory workshops on joik given by Sanna Kurki-Suonio from Finland. She knows may different styles but didn't know any which uses overtone singing techniques.<br />
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German Wikipedia still describes joik as "monotonous-guttural throat singing of the Sami". If you have examples than they are right. I'd very much…
Hi Stacey,<br />
thanks for your post. Do you have a recording of joik with overtones?<br />
<br />
I just came back from the (marvelous) Scandinavian Overtone Singing Festival where I participated in an<br />
introductory workshops on joik given by Sanna Kurki-Suonio from Finland. She knows may different styles but didn't know any which uses overtone singing techniques.<br />
<br />
German Wikipedia still describes joik as "monotonous-guttural throat singing of the Sami". If you have examples than they are right. I'd very much like to hear them.<br />
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Wolfgang<br />
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<cite>Stacey said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.overtone.cc/forum/topics/throatsinging-in-finland?xg_source=activity#884327Comment117576"><div>Sverige's Radio has a series on Jojk and it contains examples of jojk with some kargyraa-like sounds and jojk that utilizes some overtones for embellishment/ornamentation.</div>
</blockquote> Sverige's Radio has a series…tag:www.overtone.cc,2011-03-23:884327:Comment:1175762011-03-23T05:50:39.587ZStaceyhttps://www.overtone.cc/profile/Stacey
Sverige's Radio has a series on Jojk and it contains examples of jojk with some kargyraa-like sounds and jojk that utilizes some overtones for embellishment/ornamentation.
Sverige's Radio has a series on Jojk and it contains examples of jojk with some kargyraa-like sounds and jojk that utilizes some overtones for embellishment/ornamentation. Never heard but I am not spec…tag:www.overtone.cc,2011-01-02:884327:Comment:1122512011-01-02T20:40:12.517ZSauli Heikkilähttps://www.overtone.cc/profile/SauliHeikkila
Never heard but I am not specialised in Sami culture. Must raise the subject when meeting some professionals.<br />
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Joik is sung by open throat, in my mind anyway. More like in arabian culture, north american pow wow, some styles of Taiwanese aboriginals. But yes, it is interresting to compare styles and wonder the similarities.<br />
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<cite>Philippe Martin - Philmar said:…</cite>
Never heard but I am not specialised in Sami culture. Must raise the subject when meeting some professionals.<br />
<br />
Joik is sung by open throat, in my mind anyway. More like in arabian culture, north american pow wow, some styles of Taiwanese aboriginals. But yes, it is interresting to compare styles and wonder the similarities.<br />
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<cite>Philippe Martin - Philmar said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.overtone.cc/forum/topics/throatsinging-in-finland?commentId=884327%3AComment%3A112225&xg_source=msg_com_forum#884327Comment112225"><div><br/> <br/>
<cite>Sauli Heikkilä said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.overtone.cc/forum/topics/throatsinging-in-finland?commentId=884327%3AComment%3A112224&xg_source=msg_com_forum#884327Comment112224"><div><br/> Hmm... Practically you can pick what-ever-singing technic in the world and you can find as much similarities as between joik and khoomei. With the flute there must be some misunderstanding. So far I know, flute just don´t belong in saami tradition. Singing has always been á cappella and only instrument they use is drum.<br/> <br/>
Sauli</div>
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Hi Sauli,<br/>
I've seen the fadno flute in some saami websites, and at this link <a rel="nofollow" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sami_music" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sami_music</a> . Some says the Lur (natural horn) was played too by Saamis.<br/>
All types of singing is sounding with overtones of course, but the traditional joik style is playing with the timbre as much as with melody and rythm. It seems for me that each of those 3 aspects is simple, not consciously developped, but in an instinctive balance of singing manners. As a singer I think it's interesting...</div>
</blockquote> Sauli Heikkilä said: Hmm...…tag:www.overtone.cc,2011-01-02:884327:Comment:1122252011-01-02T15:07:06.520ZMartin Philippehttps://www.overtone.cc/profile/MartinPhilippe
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<cite>Sauli Heikkilä said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.overtone.cc/forum/topics/throatsinging-in-finland?commentId=884327%3AComment%3A112224&xg_source=msg_com_forum#884327Comment112224"><div><br></br> Hmm... Practically you can pick what-ever-singing technic in the world and you can find as much similarities as between joik and khoomei. With the flute there must be some misunderstanding. So far I know, flute just don´t belong in saami tradition. Singing has always been á…</div>
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<cite>Sauli Heikkilä said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.overtone.cc/forum/topics/throatsinging-in-finland?commentId=884327%3AComment%3A112224&xg_source=msg_com_forum#884327Comment112224"><div><br/> Hmm... Practically you can pick what-ever-singing technic in the world and you can find as much similarities as between joik and khoomei. With the flute there must be some misunderstanding. So far I know, flute just don´t belong in saami tradition. Singing has always been á cappella and only instrument they use is drum.<br/>
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Sauli</div>
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Hi Sauli,<br/>
I've seen the fadno flute in some saami websites, and at this link <a rel="nofollow" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sami_music" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sami_music</a> . Some says the Lur (natural horn) was played too by Saamis.<br/>
All types of singing is sounding with overtones of course, but the traditional joik style is playing with the timbre as much as with melody and rythm. It seems for me that each of those 3 aspects is simple, not consciously developped, but in an instinctive balance of singing manners. As a singer I think it's interesting... Hi Philippe
Hmm... Practical…tag:www.overtone.cc,2011-01-02:884327:Comment:1122242011-01-02T09:21:42.437ZSauli Heikkilähttps://www.overtone.cc/profile/SauliHeikkila
Hi Philippe<br />
<br />
Hmm... Practically you can pick what-ever-singing technic in the world and you can find as much similarities as between joik and khoomei. With the flute there must be some misunderstanding. So far I know, flute just don´t belong in saami tradition. Singing has always been á cappella and only instrument they use is drum.<br />
<br />
Sauli
Hi Philippe<br />
<br />
Hmm... Practically you can pick what-ever-singing technic in the world and you can find as much similarities as between joik and khoomei. With the flute there must be some misunderstanding. So far I know, flute just don´t belong in saami tradition. Singing has always been á cappella and only instrument they use is drum.<br />
<br />
Sauli