Three Rare Styles of Throat Singing

Comment by Alexander Glenfield on October 11, 2010 at 5:12pm

@ Dan Hey Dan: You must procure a copy of Mark van Tongeren's book with the accompanying CD. I believe the best way to get it is through the Tuva Trader (http://www.scs-intl.com/trader/tuva_books.htm) Regarding the getting of the right sound, I believe you must be careful with imitating. Rather than try to sound like someone else, just tweak your own sound until you find the sound you prefer.
However, if you feel stuck in your present sound, you might need a change in tongue position and the location or degree of laryngeal tension.

Have you ever played a brass instrument?

Alex

Comment by Steve Sklar on October 11, 2010 at 6:17pm

It's kinda tricky, as terms change in meaning over time. But there are some constants: the technique behind the style involves the rhythmic opening and closing of the nasal port. Other things may be occurring as well, ornamentally as well as including the basic technique such as khoomei vs kargyraa vs sygyt or combinations of those. The mouth may be open or closed, but usually is not wide open (very tough this way).

Sauli, I agree that one can get great percussive sounds by using the tongue and I do that a lot, but ezengileer really requires the technique of isolating and controlling the nasal port directly. Let's play with this at the next Finnish workshop, shall we? ;-)

I contrast those approaches in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EczPVIKIsU

While it's true that the name ezengileer is based on the word for stirrup, I think there's more to this: older singers tended to create more of a soundscape in which the rider is traveling. Younger singers now merely open and close their nasal ports and call it ezengileer. No snub to Ayan-ool Sam, as he's quite a fine singer. But that's how I hear that. I don't have the Sevek Aldyn-ool recording handy. And FWIW, one often hears Kaigal-ool work the nasal port in a similar fashion, but he doesn't call it ezengileer..

Hear are a few recordings to check out for educational purposes: http://khoomei.com/ezengileer/

Three examples by Oleg Kuular, Xanashataar-ool Oorzhak, and Marzhamal Ondar.

Very different approaches: Oleg, the youngest, performs a simpler oscillating effect, at about 2:40. MO and XO's styles are very different and much more evocative IMO. It's kinda tricky, as terms change in meaning over time. But there are some constants: the technique behind the style involves the rhythmic opening and closing of the nasal port. Other things may be occurring as well, ornamentally as well as including the basic technique such as khoomei vs kargyraa vs sygyt or combinations of those. The mouth may be open or closed, but usually is not wide open (very tough this way).

Sauli, I agree that one can get great percussive sounds by using the tongue and I do that a lot, but ezengileer really requires the technique of isolating and controlling the nasal port directly. Let's play with this at the next Finnish workshop, shall we? ;-)

I contrast those approaches in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EczPVIKIsU

Cheers,

Steve

Comment by Dan Zimmermann on October 11, 2010 at 7:00pm

You make some very interesting points as usual, Steve. Thanks for the sample links, they're helpful. Have you heard my latest samples in the forum? I think they turned out great, although once again, I have improved since I uploaded those. I'm going to try and make new ones today. I feel sassy!!

Comment by Steve Sklar on October 11, 2010 at 9:44pm

Dan, now, was traveling but I'll give a listen when I get a chance.

Comment by Dan Zimmermann on October 11, 2010 at 11:07pm

@Alex: Naturally I understand I can't exactly mimic anyone perfectly, nor do I try. What I was getting at was that I am discovering my vocal abilities and trying to find out which techniques sound better than others when I perform them.
My Sygyt for example doesn't sound at all like Kaigal-Ool's or Radik's, but I can do a passable Igor. Can't really do Kongar-Ool's Sygyt, I believe it's because my Xorekteer gets sloppy in the higher pitches and his preferred fundamental seems to be a lot higher than what I feel comfortable with.
When I improvise and am not imitating, I do have my own sound. My Kargyraa is still growing in all sorts of directions and keeps getting crisper, if I want it to.
If I have been styling away for a while, everything sort of loosens up and I get yet different sounds. I get a wider range of overtones on Kargyraa and can do it higher, approximating Oidupaa's pitch. I still don't sound that nasal, though. When I'm "loose", my Sygyt changes by requiring less air to really ring and I get clear, piercing notes if I clamp down hard, attenuating the fundamental into ambient levels, which is cool and sounds like Oleg Kuular's. If I relax the clamping and breathe less hard, the Sygyt becomes light and "round" sounding, especially when I lower the fundamental to the range of Igor Koshkendey.
I do Khoomei in a low drone, so low in fact, it sometimes rattles a little like Kargyraa. That's the only way I can relax my lips enough to vibrate slowly, much slower than your Borbang, but it's getting there.
When I raise the pitch in Khoomei, I get quite high, but it's more "work" than play and I only do it to exercise or "stretch" my range, or when I want to sing a long with a song.
See, I got lots to say and to ask. Wish we could hang in a park and bounce sounds off each other...

Comment by Dan Zimmermann on October 12, 2010 at 7:16am

@Alex: I forgot to answer your question... I have not played any brass instruments. I did pick up a friend's trumpet, but didn't attempt to play it, because he told me that the spit valve hasn't been cleaned since last week (eeewwww). I have tried another friend's didj, but only for a moment and I couldn't play it. I have played guitar (ac, semi and el), keyboards (digital, organ and piano) and percussion, but nothing fancy.
I have meanwhile figured out how to blow a horn, although I just try to make different notes on a straight PVC tube and I could play hollow log, but I don't have one. Jaw harp is possible, too.
I always felt apprehensive about touching violins, because I'm scared to break it and have to pay for a replacement or repair, but I want to experience the feel of a fretless string instrument.
I am currently looking into making a kaval or fujara or ney or tsuur or whatever I can muster, but I never seem to have the time to begin making it.

Comment by Alexander Glenfield on October 12, 2010 at 3:35pm

Hi Dan,

You have gone deep! And yes, I'd like to hear you in person and in real time, or maybe a close simulation of true personal communication. Do you use Skype?

The reason I asked about playing a brass instrument is that brass technique and overtone singing share a few parallels, and I'm starting to believe that one helps the other. Playing jaw harp is perhaps the closest approximation of what happens with the tongue when changing pitches/registers on a brass instrument.

Many fine brass players, howevr, when learning to overtone sing, apply the same tongue placement to sygyt but end up with a less isolated and amplified harmonic. Sygyt, as the way I have come to hear and feel it, involves a slightly different tongue position that further filters the intermediary harmonics.

Thus, brass players can get stuck in one tongue position, the one they use for playing an instrument, and miss out on other variables of tongue placement. This does not, however, apply to you, a non-brass player.

In NYC last month, I spent some time with some of New York's finest trumpeters and we learned much about the parallels between harmonic singing and brass playing. Definitely a geek talk session, but I think brass players might have a new pedagogical method on their hands.

Interesting stuff!

I am now going to peruse all the links we have from Steve and then off to look at your samples on this forum.

By the way, not cleaning a spit valve for one week is not so bad. I haven't cleaned mine since July.

Be well, and if you have to think thoughts, think nice ones,
Alex

Comment by Dan Zimmermann on October 13, 2010 at 8:10am

Yes, I'm on skype, search for me through facebook there.

I didn't know about the brass tongue thing, I thought all the sound came from the lips. Always wondered how a dude with three on/off valves can play so many notes...
As a non-brass-player, I am sort of a clean slate for learning new stuff... I just wish sometimes I had better hearing, because I often don't hear subtle mistakes I make until I listen to it on headphones.

I have samples posted only at Khoomei.com, some are linked to the Khoomei facebook group, and very few crappier ones on RN.

Talk to you soon... I'm off all day Wednesday. PST

Peace

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