Throat singing (related) content

I had this idea for a thread where we post youtube videos and other stuff that might be useful, interesting, unknown, or anything else.
I start with a few videos:
You probably saw this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwANedEkqaY He is pretty impressive, though I think he's not tuvan. Title says mongolian, but some people call everything from the middle east mongolian... I don't know, does anyone know more about him and the song?
Second, this clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uf1lEawgTE Kongar-Ool Ondar is raping in Kargraa. It's really cool and you probably know that one, too.
The last video is quite unknown, but really cool, even though it doesn't directly feature throat singing... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LYJzl6ZKBU The idea is just awesome, check it out. ;-)

This content has been seen 183 times

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Alzin on October 27, 2011 at 7:14pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpwvEALD_CY&feature=related
Two voices at the same time. Literally. I have never heard something like that before, any ideas what he is doing?

Permalink Reply by Dan Zimmermann on October 28, 2011 at 3:48pm

He's using a fleshy part of the throat (not sure which one) to constrict and create a vibration he can use to talk with. The vocal cords are then engaged also, resulting in two sound sources being spoken with. Now, if he could say two different things, that would be truly incredible.

The thing is, I think it's similar to what Ms. Swan does in her multiphonics video. I can make sounds similar to that, even two sounds at a time, not overtones. But the control over the sound is unreal.

When I groan, it turns out, I don't use my voice, but the sound comes from elsewhere. I know this because I can "turn on" my voice while I groan and it sounds like two people groaning. I will upload samples of this some day.

Permalink Reply by Alzin on October 28, 2011 at 4:24pm

Sounds convincing, I had those thoughts, too. I jsut wonder where he produces the high voice... and if he could use the false folds for a third voice. That would be really nice, though it probably wouldn't sound good. Just something for us nerds! :D

Permalink Reply by Dan Zimmermann on October 28, 2011 at 4:38pm

Whether it sounds good or not is a matter of opinion and perspective anyways. I think it might possibly BE the fals folds that make the high sound, like falsetto of the Kargyraa, lol. I understand regular falsetto is the vibration of the edge of the vocal folds, which under tension can oscillate faster, creating a higher pitch, perhaps this is possible with the ventricular folds as well, pushing a low air stream through them while tensioned tightly, creating a high-pitched groaning sound.
We should 'rip' the audio from this video and slow it down 50% to see whether the tone sounds similar to Kargyraa when pitched down. Now THAT's nerdy!

Permalink Reply by Alzin on October 29, 2011 at 12:31pm

I remember peterofthecorn uploading a sampl eon the forum where he did kargyraa while singing in falsetto. Maybe you're right and this guy found a way to do kargyraa-falsetto, which would be an awesome new style.

Permalink Reply by Dan Zimmermann on October 30, 2011 at 9:41pm

Okay, I had to tweak around a little, but I managed to "rip" the audio from the YouTube clip. I will analyze it and check for "falsetto Kargyraa" soon. Actually, now that I think about it, Kargyraa is the sympathetic vibration of the ventricular folds along with the Xorekteer-constricted vocal cords. What I am hypothesizing is the absence of vocal cord tone while just air flow makes the ventricular folds creates an independent, not sympathetic sound source, sort of like a "squeak". I just don't think there are any more parts in the vocal tract that can be used like that, so I assume it's the Kargyraa muscle... We'll find out more

Permalink Reply by Alzin on October 31, 2011 at 10:09am

Steve demonstrates false folds without vocal folds briefly in his kargyraa-lesson, sounds completely different, but maybe this guy uses some sort of technique Steve didn't know. When I try to do just the false folds, and I'm not sure I manage that, it sounds kinda like Albert Kuvezin... Very deep. I got a cold now, maybe I can upload something in a few days.

Permalink Reply by Dan Zimmermann on October 31, 2011 at 3:26pm

I do a sort of groaning sound that I discovered is "under" the normal vocal tone. Like I say, the "unvoiced" Kargyraa muscle that Steve demonstrates (I think Brian and Steve call it "Lion Breath") is more a slight tightening of the folds, making sympathetic vibration possible. Of course, without a basic vibration to swing along with, there wouldn't be a "tone" per se. But I think, if you tighten that part even more to the point where you can "squeak" air through it, it would be a separate sound source from the vocal folds and would not vibrate along with the voice. That's my theory anyway. It's based on me being able to do such a squeak PLUS regular voice tone, independently. Incidentally, my imitation of "Grampa Simpson" utilizes that "voice". It sounds very strained. Perhaps it's also how those YouTube guys are doing the Goa'uld voice... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1gpNM3AbYE

Permalink Reply by Dan Zimmermann on November 18, 2011 at 5:19am

Okay, update... I ripped the Thompson guy's audio from Youtube... and slowed it down 400%... that got the pitch down to "regular" vocal range actually, the cartoon voice he does is actually really high-pitched, so going down by that factor still doesn't sound as low as Kargyraa... however, the audio is of too low a quality to yield any usable clues to figure out how he does it...

The sound quality of the voice is very near a squeak, meaning a sound made by pressing air through tight meat somewhere. This makes me think that the sound could come from anywhere in his mouth. Tongue and cheek, glottis or velum, who knows besides the guy himself... It's not a vocal fold sound, that's certain, and it doesn't seem to constrict either.

Spectrographical analysis reveals that the normal voice almost doesn't change at all when the second voice is used. When one constricts the airway, the vocal sound changes a lot, making Khoomei possible for example. In this case, a seemingly independent sound source exists that doesn't affect the regular voice at all. I can detect a tiny shift in clarity of his speech though. It seems the tongue is used somehow, because it seems like it's otherwise occupied and thus too busy to form the formants as clearly as without the second voice.

Hmmm, just thinking maybe I should analyze audio files for a living... I do hear a lot of information even on short or convoluted clips...

Permalink Reply by Alzin on November 18, 2011 at 1:07pm

Really looks like you got a talent there. :D
This guy is a mistery... I see he somehow tilts his jaw to one side, or at least he distorts his mouth a bit. I think that has got something to do with it... But I really wonder how it works. It definitely sounds like a squeak, but how is it possible to speak with a normal voice and do a squeak at the same time? A squeak needs pressure, a lot of pressure, but when you press a lot, you can't speak with a normal voice.
I don't get it...

Permalink Reply by Alzin on December 10, 2011 at 10:25am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IFt6MyiV...!
Okay, I don't think this guy uses overtones, but what IS he doing? He claims to be whistling, but I have never seen/heard someone whistle like that. Anyone knows how that works?

Permalink Reply by Dan Zimmermann on December 10, 2011 at 3:21pm

A squeak only needs a lot of pressure if the passage that makes the squeak is tight. I can speak and Khoomei at the same pressure, even though Khoomei is constricted... Keep in mind that he might have a physical deformity such as a scar or skin tag etc that may enable him to create a squeak somewhere other than between the vocal cords and the lips. The sound may come from between the teeth and cheeks.

Alzin said:

Really looks like you got a talent there. :D
This guy is a mistery... I see he somehow tilts his jaw to one side, or at least he distorts his mouth a bit. I think that has got something to do with it... But I really wonder how it works. It definitely sounds like a squeak, but how is it possible to speak with a normal voice and do a squeak at the same time? A squeak needs pressure, a lot of pressure, but when you press a lot, you can't speak with a normal voice.
I don't get it...