Interesting: China and Khoomei - Overtone Music Network2024-03-19T07:34:39Zhttps://www.overtone.cc/forum/topics/interesting-china-and-khoomei?feed=yes&xn_auth=noHi Steve, thanks for this upd…tag:www.overtone.cc,2010-11-18:884327:Comment:1079002010-11-18T07:09:07.100ZJens Müggehttps://www.overtone.cc/profile/jensmuegge
Hi Steve, thanks for this update of this discussion. Russia will act soon I hope, that Tuva will be in the list too! <br></br>
<br></br>
<cite>Steve Sklar said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.overtone.cc/forum/topics/interesting-china-and-khoomei?commentId=884327%3AComment%3A107881&xg_source=msg_com_forum#884327Comment107881"><div>Here's an update:…</div>
</blockquote>
Hi Steve, thanks for this update of this discussion. Russia will act soon I hope, that Tuva will be in the list too! <br/>
<br/>
<cite>Steve Sklar said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.overtone.cc/forum/topics/interesting-china-and-khoomei?commentId=884327%3AComment%3A107881&xg_source=msg_com_forum#884327Comment107881"><div>Here's an update: <a href="http://www.unesco.org/culture/ich/index.php?lg=en&pg=00011&RL=00396" target="_blank">www.unesco.org/The_Mongolian_traditional_art_of_Khöömei</a><a href="http://www.unesco.org/culture/ich/index.php?lg=en&pg=00011&RL=00396" target="_blank">_(overtone_singing)</a> <br/> <br/> So, Mongolia is "in the club." Hopefully Russia will act soon, too.</div>
</blockquote> Hi Steve,
Thank for this. Gr…tag:www.overtone.cc,2010-11-18:884327:Comment:1078832010-11-18T00:11:02.918ZMichael Ormistonhttps://www.overtone.cc/profile/MicahelOrmiston
Hi Steve,<br />
<br />
Thank for this. Great news that the Mongolian tradition has been recognised. let's hope that The Tuvan tradition is recognised by UNESCO soon.
Hi Steve,<br />
<br />
Thank for this. Great news that the Mongolian tradition has been recognised. let's hope that The Tuvan tradition is recognised by UNESCO soon. Here's an update: http://www.…tag:www.overtone.cc,2010-11-17:884327:Comment:1078812010-11-17T23:37:01.455ZSteve Sklarhttps://www.overtone.cc/profile/SteveSklar
Here's an update: <a href="http://www.unesco.org/culture/ich/index.php?lg=en&pg=00011&RL=00396" target="_blank">http://www.unesco.org/culture/ich/index.php?lg=en&pg=00011&RL=00396</a><br />
<br />
So, Mongolia is "in the club." Hopefully Russia will act soon, too.
Here's an update: <a href="http://www.unesco.org/culture/ich/index.php?lg=en&pg=00011&RL=00396" target="_blank">http://www.unesco.org/culture/ich/index.php?lg=en&pg=00011&RL=00396</a><br />
<br />
So, Mongolia is "in the club." Hopefully Russia will act soon, too. Hello All,
Just a quick repl…tag:www.overtone.cc,2010-09-30:884327:Comment:1027002010-09-30T09:14:19.996ZMichael Ormistonhttps://www.overtone.cc/profile/MicahelOrmiston
Hello All,<br />
<br />
Just a quick reply to all these very good points. I was informed about this situation by a Monglian sometime ago and emailed Unesco. The upshot of this is that anyone who lays claim to an intangibale cultural heritage has to apply to Unesco. I contacted the Mongolian cultural attache in London and they contacted the Mongolian government in Ulaanbaatar who replied saying that they are dealing with this side of things. I suggest someone contact the Tuvan authorities to do the same as…
Hello All,<br />
<br />
Just a quick reply to all these very good points. I was informed about this situation by a Monglian sometime ago and emailed Unesco. The upshot of this is that anyone who lays claim to an intangibale cultural heritage has to apply to Unesco. I contacted the Mongolian cultural attache in London and they contacted the Mongolian government in Ulaanbaatar who replied saying that they are dealing with this side of things. I suggest someone contact the Tuvan authorities to do the same as I do not have the contactes in that area of the world.<br />
<br />
The idea of intangible cultural heritage is in my opinion a political, cultural, historical, financial and music business minefield. It is wonderful to promote all stlyes of harmonic overtone singing, but when anyone claims ownership of it, it can cause so many bad vibes.<br />
<br />
I mentioned to UNESCO that there was a very strong tradition of overtone singing in Germany and that they should clain intangible heritage. Apparantly this cannot happen as germany is not signed up, but in theory if it did, then this could happen! Cray world.<br />
<br />
Regarding inner Mongolia, all the points mentioned above by everyone I feel are valid. Who knows where Khoomii/ei started. Although I do have a recording from inner Monfgolia,The Haslund-Christensen Collection no. 143 of Two men singing together, recorded on August 23rd 1938 in Khukhu Khoto. One of them seems to be singing a type of Khargiraa, which is basically just a drone for the other singer to sing a melody ontop in a non overtone singing voice. This is very interesting but proves nothing.<br />
<br />
keep the good work up Excellent reply and confusion…tag:www.overtone.cc,2010-04-25:884327:Comment:916742010-04-25T14:06:52.107ZHing Chaohttps://www.overtone.cc/profile/HingChao
Excellent reply and confusion cleared!
Excellent reply and confusion cleared! Hi Iza, I saw that more then…tag:www.overtone.cc,2010-04-09:884327:Comment:907952010-04-09T10:33:50.002ZJens Müggehttps://www.overtone.cc/profile/jensmuegge
Hi Iza, I saw that more then 8700 people signed this petition now. Yes, if China wants to have khoomei as their heritage, then Russia has the same right and Mongolia of course too. Therefore khoomei can be listed only as multinational intangible heritage. I think what Hing Chao has posted <a href="http://www.overtone.cc/forum/topics/interesting-china-and-khoomei?commentId=884327%3AComment%3A86046"><b>here</b></a> is important: » Hoomei is a very important heritage of Inner Mongolia but at the…
Hi Iza, I saw that more then 8700 people signed this petition now. Yes, if China wants to have khoomei as their heritage, then Russia has the same right and Mongolia of course too. Therefore khoomei can be listed only as multinational intangible heritage. I think what Hing Chao has posted <a href="http://www.overtone.cc/forum/topics/interesting-china-and-khoomei?commentId=884327%3AComment%3A86046"><b>here</b></a> is important: » Hoomei is a very important heritage of Inner Mongolia but at the same time it certainly does not lay exclusive claim to it. « Thanks Jens, for a linkt to t…tag:www.overtone.cc,2010-01-30:884327:Comment:861302010-01-30T10:35:36.339ZIza Spaleniakhttps://www.overtone.cc/profile/IzaSpaleniak
Thanks Jens, for a linkt to this discussion. Have not read all your posts yet, but yesterday also a friend from Tuva asked for signature.<br />
Well, if China wants to have khoomei as their heritage, then Russia has the same right..
Thanks Jens, for a linkt to this discussion. Have not read all your posts yet, but yesterday also a friend from Tuva asked for signature.<br />
Well, if China wants to have khoomei as their heritage, then Russia has the same right.. Andrew, you are totally spot…tag:www.overtone.cc,2010-01-30:884327:Comment:861282010-01-30T08:52:35.684ZHing Chaohttps://www.overtone.cc/profile/HingChao
Andrew, you are totally spot on. From what I know this is precisely what they have done in Inner Mongolia - hiring teachers from the Republic to teach students the art of Hoomei.<br />
<br />
The Manchus are a curiously hybridized ethno-political group, not unlike the Mongols or Jurchen that preceded them. They consisted of a large number of loosely related groups, mostly Tungusic, but also many Han Chinese, Mongols, and Daghurs living in the Khingan Mountains and in the Amur Region. Their script and…
Andrew, you are totally spot on. From what I know this is precisely what they have done in Inner Mongolia - hiring teachers from the Republic to teach students the art of Hoomei.<br />
<br />
The Manchus are a curiously hybridized ethno-political group, not unlike the Mongols or Jurchen that preceded them. They consisted of a large number of loosely related groups, mostly Tungusic, but also many Han Chinese, Mongols, and Daghurs living in the Khingan Mountains and in the Amur Region. Their script and language was hugely influenced by the Mongols, and there was active military alliance between the Manchus and the Mongols, particularly in the early period with princes from the Eastern plains.<br />
<br />
Regarding the music, more specifically, there are two groups focusing on the study and revival of Qing Court music - one is based in Holhot called Jihanggar, the other is an official orchestra (meaning endorsed and run by the local official body) in Hulun Buir City. I've heard/read similar thing…tag:www.overtone.cc,2010-01-29:884327:Comment:860532010-01-29T14:41:54.750ZAndrew Colwellhttps://www.overtone.cc/profile/AndrewColwell
I've heard/read similar things about the number of xoomi singers in China's Xinjiang region and Inner Mongolia, that there were a fair number before Communism, but they were discouraged until there were only a few left. It's interesting: if you listen to the new generation of Inner Mongolian singers, you can hear the influence of Odsuren, who is the most prolific teacher in Ulaanbaatar. He travels to Inner Mongoia frequently and is one the singers standing up at a formal ceremony in the Chinese…
I've heard/read similar things about the number of xoomi singers in China's Xinjiang region and Inner Mongolia, that there were a fair number before Communism, but they were discouraged until there were only a few left. It's interesting: if you listen to the new generation of Inner Mongolian singers, you can hear the influence of Odsuren, who is the most prolific teacher in Ulaanbaatar. He travels to Inner Mongoia frequently and is one the singers standing up at a formal ceremony in the Chinese UNESCO video.<br />
<br />
As for Qing music, I don't know enough about it, but would love to learn more. I do know that the Qing dynasty was created by the Manchu, a Tungusic group, not a Mongol group. But because of Kubilai Khan, the Mongol empoeror who sinicized his leadership to appeal to his Chinese subjects, Mongolian cultural elements were embedded into many aspects of Chinese culture. And the Qing inherited this when they descended from the Northwest and took over. I can't think of any but a few slight references of xoomi thorugh out this time, nothing tangible. As far as I know there were o…tag:www.overtone.cc,2010-01-29:884327:Comment:860462010-01-29T10:12:09.916ZHing Chaohttps://www.overtone.cc/profile/HingChao
As far as I know there were only a limited number of traditional Hoomei practitioners in Inner Mongolia, predominantly in the central and western parts of the province, until a few years ago. However, since early 2000s there is rapid rise in Hoomei singers, with many youngsters learning the art at various music schools, institutes, and universities. China has certainly pumped a lot of resources to promote items that have been listed as national intangible heritage, and if it happens to resonate…
As far as I know there were only a limited number of traditional Hoomei practitioners in Inner Mongolia, predominantly in the central and western parts of the province, until a few years ago. However, since early 2000s there is rapid rise in Hoomei singers, with many youngsters learning the art at various music schools, institutes, and universities. China has certainly pumped a lot of resources to promote items that have been listed as national intangible heritage, and if it happens to resonate with 'nationalities harmony' so much the better. This is why the musical tradition of Mukam from Xinjiang came top of the national list 2 years ago.<br />
<br />
Over the last decade there is also a rise in the interest of traditional Mongolian music in China, with several orchestras formed to revive and promote Mongolian court music from the Qing period.<br />
<br />
As far as I am concerned, Mongolian court music - as well as much of its culture - developed and evolved as a result of prolonged cultural contact and exchange with neighbouring peoples and states including China. It is testimony to the importance of cultural exchange in the making of societies and world history.<br />
<br />
Hoomei is a very important heritage of Inner Mongolia but at the same time it certainly does not lay exclusive claim to it.