Overtone Music Network

a common space & database for harmonic overtones

# 432 tuning fork

On a facebook group we are debating about thia question (search IL diapason... "LA" a 432hz):
there is a theory (Ananda Bosman and others) that suggest to reduce the 440 frequency of the tuning fork to 432 Hz.
In my opinion it would be right to reduce the tuning fork frequency but it is a nonsense the number 432; you know what is the Hertz unit, it is in relation with the "second" time unit. If this time unit was more or less than the actual, the theory (and others) would be a poor bluff.
What do you think?

Tags: audio, fork, frequency, hertz, tuning

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### Replies to This Discussion

Thanks Christopher,
but I think I was misunderstood.
This question is the last of my problems, my life goes on anyway, I have got other problems more important than 432 Hz.
I don't want to show nothing, other people suggest the 432 Hz theory, not me.
But I'd like this people show us a good explanation; till now I only read about strange concepts and mathematical considerations without sense because of the "second" conventionality,as I said formerly. Period. No problem.
But I'm happy you, Skye and other friends gave me your opinions, :-)
31 cent ??? WoooooooooooW !

So the 7-th overtone must be somehow related to this !
May be thats why it sounds so deep-hearted !

It is 31 cent lower than on the piano - tempered tuning. :D
There are many different tempered tunings but you are probably thinking of 12TET (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_temperament)
The deviation between 440 and 432 Hz is 31.8 cent (log(440/432)x1200/log2)
The deviation between 7/4 (968,826 cent) and the equal tempered small seventh (1000 cent) is - as you can see - 31,174 cent.
So it is not the same thing.
The natural seventh sounds so deep hearted because it is part of the harmonic series!! -It IS the universal music.
Hi folks, if you are aiming at tuning a symphonie orchestra in 432 you will have work hard. It is ok to make a piece of music for different metal gadgets like forks, knifes and other kitchen utilities not tuned in 440. Ask an oboeist about tuning?

Greetings
Iver

It seems that the 432 campaign has gathered more momentum - not in quality but in visibility.
Therefore I wrote an article dealing with the various aspects of this issue.

432 Red Herrings Per Second
The notion that in the tonal world the frequency value 432 Hz is an expression of something special, has proven to be tenacious.
Is 432 Hz an expression of a deeper, more natural, perhaps even more cosmic concert pitch than 440 Hz?

My immediate and clear answer is no!

...

You may find the text here!

Great, I totally agree

Skye Løfvander said:

It seems that the 432 campaign has gathered more momentum - not in quality but in visibility.
Therefore I wrote an article dealing with the various aspects of this issue.

432 Red Herrings Per Second
The notion that in the tonal world the frequency value 432 Hz is an expression of something special, has proven to be tenacious.
Is 432 Hz an expression of a deeper, more natural, perhaps even more cosmic concert pitch than 440 Hz?

My immediate and clear answer is no!

...

You may find the text here!

I totally agree to as it concerns the number theories. But lowering the concert pitch makes sense in some cases.

Many pieces written for voice sound now up to 100 ct higher, which matters when it goes to the upper limits of a soprano aria or if it concernes the passagio for instance. In general the orchestra sound changes to a louder sound with a different loudness distribution in the overtones when rising the concert pitch. The loudness in another problem for singers. And the sound the composer had in mind is changed too by changing the pitch.

However there might be somthing like a "natural" concert pitch. I am testing my hypothesis of a "fixed" second formant in gregorian chant. I will report as soon as I have reliable results.

Wolfgang, the real main question was why 432 Hz and not 431 or 433 or others?
Do you refer to' the Titze second singing formant?

Wolfgang Saus said:

I totally agree to as it concerns the number theories. But lowering the concert pitch makes sense in some cases.

Many pieces written for voice sound now up to 100 ct higher, which matters when it goes to the upper limits of a soprano aria or if it concernes the passagio for instance. In general the orchestra sound changes to a louder sound with a different loudness distribution in the overtones when rising the concert pitch. The loudness in another problem for singers. And the sound the composer had in mind is changed too by changing the pitch.

However there might be somthing like a "natural" concert pitch. I am testing my hypothesis of a "fixed" second formant in gregorian chant. I will report as soon as I have reliable results.

Marco, I don't know what Titze second formant is. I mean the convetional second voice formant. It's bit lengthy to explain. And not all experiments are done yet. It's about harmonic formant constellations, i. e. harmonic vowels and energy efficient singing. In the attachement you'll find a scheme of all possible "economic vowels". I am on my way to compare those with gregorian chant melodies for different monastries but same texts and looking for the statitically most energy saving tuning... this, as a very short version of my new approach.

The scheme shows lines of harmonic intervals between the first and second formant. Those are the vowels of what I called "singing phonetics". For comparison Swedish speaking vowels are shown as published by Fant.

Please read Milton Mermikides' clear and thorough reflections on this subject!
http://www.miltonline.com/2014/01/07/hertz-so-good/

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